PBD Podcast – Religious Roundtable | PBD Podcast | Ep. 306

Intro

In this episode of the PBD Podcast, the host engages in a religious roundtable discussion with guests from different faiths, including Christianity and Islam. The aim is to find common enemies and foster unity despite religious differences. The conversation covers topics such as the importance of the NBA, differences between Christianity and Islam, personal journeys to Islam, the role of violence in religious texts, and the challenges faced by Muslims in Western societies.

Main Takeaways

The Importance of the NBA and Greatest Players of All Time

• The podcast discusses the importance of the NBA and the greatest players of all time.

Differences between Christianity and Islam

• The discussion includes differences between Christianity and Islam, and who their common enemies are.

Guests from Various Religions

• The host is a Christian and has friends from various religions, including Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, and Jews.

Guests in the Roundtable Discussion

• The guests include Daniel Hariradju, a Sunni Muslim debater who founded MuslimSkeptic.com and teaches Islam at mosques and universities around the world, and Jake Brankatela, a Muslim metaphysician and convert to Islam who primarily debates Christians and atheists.

Goal of Finding Common Enemies

• The host’s goal is to find common enemies and bring people together despite their religious differences.

Speakers and Their Backgrounds

• The speakers include a member of the Muslim Debate Initiative, Brother Rashid, who wrote a book on Islamic terrorism, and Robert Spencer, an American author and commentator.
• Robert Spencer’s interest in Islam started from his grandparents who were exiled from Turkey for not converting to Islam, and his fascination grew after consulting with people in the 90s about these issues.
• Brother Rashid grew up in Morocco as a Muslim and became interested in Christianity at the age of 12 after listening to a radio program.

Personal Journeys to Islam

• Three individuals share their personal journeys to Islam.
• Danny converted to Islam at 16/17 years old, had to leave his family, and lived as a homeless person for two years.
• Jake was raised Roman Catholic but found problems with the theology and converted to Islam in his early 20s.
• Reza grew up with a strong Iranian identity, became more religious in high school and college, and converted from Shia to Sunni Islam.
• All three found Islam’s emphasis on pure monotheism and consistent message throughout time to be inviting and fitting with their natural disposition.

Challenges Faced by Muslims

• The pressure on Muslims due to the war on terror and efforts to liberalize Islam posed a conflict for Reza at Harvard University.
• Reza studied philosophy to reconcile traditional Islam with modern ideologies like liberalism and secularism.
• Reza’s book critiques modern isms like liberalism, humanism, and atheism that he believes are destroying humanity.
• Reza promotes teaching how Islam can solve problems for all people, not just Muslims.

Violence in Religious Texts

• Robert’s biggest challenge with Islam is the sanctification of violence and the idea that God calls for believers to commit acts of violence in certain circumstances.
• Rashid is an ex-Muslim who would be put to death under traditional Islamic law for changing his religion.
• Islam is 95% about worshipping God, being devoted to a righteous way of life, loving your neighbors, and taking care of your parents.
• The focus on the 5% of Islam that involves criminal punishments and war theory is a double standard compared to how Christians are discussed.
• The Bible has punishments for blasphemers, heretics, and apostates, including death without due process.
• It is unclear if the criticism of Islam is based on the Bible, the church tradition, or a liberal secular modernist critique.

Interpretation of Religious Texts

• Old Testament law does not apply to Christians for all time.
• Passages in the Quran and Muhammad’s traditions are still considered to be enforced by large numbers of Muslims.
• Major terrorist groups around the world are Islamic groups.
• Interpretative traditions in both religions are the reasons for the difference in terrorist groups.
• Robert is asked if he believes it’s inherently immoral for an apostate to be put to death, and he believes it is inherently immoral.
• Islamic authorities say apostates should be killed, which is something people need to know.
• Freedom of conscience and the dignity of the human person are Christian concepts not found in Islam.
• In Christianity, all people are equal in dignity as made in the image of God.
• The question is whether Muslims are authorized by God to put people to death for apostasy.
• The evolving understanding in the Old and New Testament and in Jewish and Christian tradition led to the realization that putting people to death for apostasy was not acceptable.
• In a proper Islamic state, all laws of the Sharia as revealed by God should be applied, including the death penalty for apostates and blasphemers.
• According to Islamic law, an apostate like Robert would be killed.
• According to Islamic law, apostates can be killed.
• Muslims who convert to Christianity can face death in some countries.
• There is no data on how many Christians have died converting to Islam, but stories exist of those who have been killed or faced death.
• The guidelines of the Quran are based on the jurisdiction of the government, meaning the laws of the nation apply.
• Islam is to be applied forever on every place, and Sharia law is to be applied, including killing apostates and those who do not pray.

Secular Liberalism and Muslim Communities

• The dominant ideology in the world today is liberal secularism, which is atheistic and anti-religion.
• Muslims are under threat because of this hegemony, with many facing death threats, de-platforming, and even drone strikes.
• The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were justified on the basis of spreading liberal values and women’s rights, resulting in the deaths of millions of Muslims.
• Both speakers agree that secular liberalism is evil and are against it.
• The idea of bringing democracy to the Islamic world through invasion was a false premise.
• The speaker receives daily death threats, mostly from Muslims, but not exclusively.
• The left is becoming increasingly unhinged and out of control.
• Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tleb, Keith Ellison, and Andre Carson are Muslim politicians in the United States.
• These politicians are adherents of Sharia law.
• The idea of bringing democracy to the Islamic world through invasion is a false premise.
• Islam has 5% that is poison, which includes violence against non-Muslims and women.
• The Quran endorses violence against non-Muslims and allows men to beat their wives.
• Muhammad waged 83 wars in 10 years and is not a role model.
• Jesus never killed anyone and is a role model for Brother Rashid.
• Muhammad ordered his disciples to kill those who criticized him, including a Jewish man and a woman.
• Islam encourages killing those who criticize Muhammad, as seen in the Charlie Hebdo attack.
• The issue is about consistency in adhering to religious texts and traditions.
• The Bible endorses violence and killing, including the killing of infants in war.
• Christians must deal with this moral problem and either condemn it as immoral or justify it as part of their faith.
• Muslims also believe in Jesus as the Messiah and anticipate his return, but do not believe in endorsing violence.
• The argument is not fallacious, but rather a check for consistency as a Christian.
• Jesus is portrayed as violent in some religious texts.
• Canon law includes practices such as slavery, marriage at a young age, and punishment for blasphemy.
• Some Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists have practices in their books that are pressured to change and update.
• The speaker argues that one faith is more intolerant than the other, with Christians becoming too tolerant.
• Research shows that some Muslims hold negative views on LGBTQ+ individuals.
• 60% of Muslim American millennials believe homosexuality should be accepted by society.
• Muslim women are more accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals than men (63% vs. 42%).
• The majority of religious LGBTQ+ Americans are Christians (split fairly amongst Catholics, Protestants, and Christian denominations).
• Liberal Christians have essentially discarded Christianity and are not representative of the faith.
• The Quran is dictated by Allah and applicable for all time, while the Bible is a record of evolving human understanding of God’s teachings.
• Slavery was abolished in Christian context due to the teachings of Jesus on the universal dignity of human beings.
• The Bible expresses the understanding of people at that time and evolved over time, unlike the Quran which is dictated by Allah and applicable for all time.
• Transgenderism goes against the Christian principle of human dignity and the idea that God creates people male and female.
• Christianity has heresies and clear-cut principles, unlike Islam which has abrogation.
• The Quran has abrogation, where God changes his commands over time.
• The idea of amendments in Christianity is not the same as abrogation in Islam.
• In Christianity, Jesus stopped many things in the Old Testament, such as sacrifices and stoning adulterers.
• As soon as Christians gained political power, they applied the Old Testament laws in the New Testament.
• Jesus never ordered a war or the killing of innocent people.
• The principle is the golden rule: do not do to people what you don’t want them to do to you.
• The Bible has caused difficulty for Jews and Christians throughout history.
• Killing babies is inherently immoral.
• Some people believe that certain passages in the Bible are fables designed to teach purity and rejection of sin.
• There is no reason to cover up the fact that some passages in the Bible are troubling.
• The principle is the golden rule: do not do to people what you don’t want them to do to you.
• Jews and Christians have an evolving understanding of their revelations that comes from later interpretations.
• Muhammad’s response to killing innocent people was not unequivocal.
• Muhammad’s response to throwing stones at an infidel city was that it didn’t matter if women and children were killed because they were all infidels.
• Sakhim Muslim permits night raids as long as they are not done deliberately.
• The passage from Sakhim Muslim suggests that women and children are not to be harmed during raids.
• The difference between the Old Testament and Islam is that Muslims believe that God’s law should be applied in the time of Muhammad today and forever, while the Old Testament applied for those circumstances and stayed there.
• In the raid of Benny Correida, Muhammad ordered to check the hair of puberty for every kid. If one hair was found, they could be killed because they were considered an adolescent.
• Killing children during war is not a good thing, but if it happens, so be it. The difference is that in the text, it’s specifically commanding from God.
• Zarqawi, the al-Qaeda leader in Iraq, justified killing women and children by invoking the passage from Sakhim Muslim.
• The punishment for treason in war is capital punishment.
• The prophet forbade intentional killing of women and children in the Hadith.
• Traditional religions have conquest, violence, and rules of war.
• Muslims are proud of their religion and won’t reform or modify it.
• More Muslims are moving to Christian nations than vice versa due to economic reasons.
• Traditional Muslim societies are more family and community-based compared to individualistic Western societies.
• Western societies are facing social problems such as high divorce and infidelity rates.
• Leaving traditional Christianity and Islam and reforming these religions is the problem.
• The West has declared war on every traditional society and it’s not safe for Muslims to be in Muslim countries.
• Traditional religious people are not safe anywhere in the world due to the dominant global power of capitalism.
• Muslim regions should accept the principles of a capitalistic free society to attract people from other countries.
• Many people leave Muslim countries due to lack of rights and freedoms, including freedom of religion and speech.
• The West has brought about many advancements in human rights, including women’s rights and the abolition of slavery.
• Freedom of speech, religion, and democracy are enjoyed in the West, while authoritarianism is the norm in many Muslim countries.
• Punishment for defection is found in every religion and culture, including community guidelines and consequences for violating them.
• Power structures restrict speech and thought to preserve the power structure in every religion.
• The principle of punishing defection is also used in organized crime and nations to preserve unity and way of life.
• The punishment for leaving Islam is the death penalty, which is seen as extreme by some.
• In an Islamic system, leaving Islam could result in the death penalty and family members being taken or killed.
• Some agencies recruit people from other industries and make them realtors, while others convert people to their company by offering a better life or dream.
• In Islam, conversion is encouraged, but leaving Islam could result in the death penalty and family members being taken or killed.
• The Muslim population is expected to grow by 73-74% to 3.1 billion by 2060.
• Muslim women have a higher fertility rate than non-Muslims, which could lead to an increase in the Muslim population.
• If this trend continues, it is possible that Muslims will hold political positions in the Senate, Congress, and governorships.
• In the midterm elections, 82 Muslims were elected to various political positions.
• Muslims are growing in numbers and their strategy is kicking Christians’ tail.
• Christians need to recover a sense of their faith and what’s at stake.
• The United States may end up looking like Egypt or Saudi Arabia if the trend continues.
• Muslims are more united in values and philosophies than Christians.
• Replacement rate in Muslim countries is dropping, next generation will be below replacement rate due to economic and other challenges.
• Many people are leaving Islam for atheism, Christianity, and other world views, but are still counted as Muslims in statistics.
• The version of Islam and the Muslim world is not really what they are preaching due to Western influence.
• Only 40% of the population in Iran identified as Muslim in a recent anonymous survey.
• Muslims are more united in values and philosophies than Christians, despite historical doctrinal differences between Sunnis and Shi’as, and various Christian denominations considering each other heretics.
• Growing Christian population is important to some because they believe a world with more Christians is better than one with more atheists.
• Describing the Bible as a book of fables and allowing it to evolve can lead to apostasy and a decrease in faith.
• Monotheism is a central and crucial part of Islam, and emphasizes the belief in one God without partners.
• Sunni and Shia Muslims agree on the belief in one God and the Quran, with some theological differences and nuances between different schools.
• There have been historical divisions and killings among followers of Muhammad, while there were none among the disciples of Jesus.
• The Old and New Testaments are records of an evolving understanding among the people of God, leading to the realization that certain things had no applicability for all people for all time.
• The idea that the Old Testament is not applicable for Christians is in the New Testament itself.
• The Quran does not have different stages of development, leading some to believe that violent verses are marching orders for today.
• Catholicism and Orthodoxy have the Apostolic succession and the authority of bishops to interpret scriptures and set doctrines, which have been consistent from the beginning.
• Many people convert to Islam but leave after discovering details they didn’t agree with, as Islam doesn’t come with a warranty.
• Early church fathers like Justin Martyr did not preach the doctrine of the Trinity.
• Justin Martyr believed that Jesus was a second God, a lesser divinity.
• The early church had difficulty understanding how God became man, leading to attempts to formulate the doctrine of the incarnation.
• Developments in Christian doctrine must harmoniously build on what came before, not contradict it.
• Homosexuality is considered immoral according to consistent teachings of all Christian groups up until recently.
• Homosexuality was considered immoral by all Christian groups until recently.
• The Trinity was formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.
• Justin Martyr tried to formulate the Trinity but did so erroneously.
• The doctrine of the Trinity did not exist in the first 300 years of the Church.
• Ignatius of Antioch was a Church Father who taught the Trinity before Nicaea.
• Ignatius of Antioch was a Church Father who taught the Trinity before Nicaea.
• Anyone is welcome to convert to Islam by saying the testification of faith.
• Christianity is for sinners who admit their sins and follow Jesus to live a better life.
• The enemy of Christians and Muslims are spiritual powers that lead people to do evil acts and anyone who threatens freedom of speech and religion.
• In Islam, the biggest enemies are Satan, the worldly life, desires, and the ego, while liberal secularism is the biggest enemy to traditional people.
• Many Americans are concerned about the way the country is going and are looking to move to other countries, such as Morocco.
• Muslims have historically voted Democratic, but their values and principles may align more with Republicans on certain issues.
• Top 10 issues for Democrats in 2024 include climate change, healthcare, and economic inequality.
• Top 10 issues for Republicans in 2024 include economic policy, immigration, and social and cultural issues.
• Muslims may have initially aligned with Democrats due to anti-Muslim policies from Republicans, but it’s important to look beyond surface-level niceties and maintain independence in political alignment.
• Muslims should not blindly align with one political party, but rather demand that both parties cater to their needs as a voting block.
• Republicans’ anti-Muslim policies have pushed some Muslims towards the Democratic party.
• The left is obsessed with the idea of racism and stifles criticism of Islam by portraying it as racism and bigotry.
• Sharia law criminalizes criticism of Islam and carries the death penalty, which is why Islamic groups are against any opposition to jihad and sharia oppression.
• Robert Spencer’s site is accused of being racist and fear-mongering against immigrants, particularly Muslims, by labeling any crime committed by a Muslim as “Islamic terror”.
• Robert Spencer’s site, G-Hodwatch, tracks G-Hod activities and is accused of being racist and fear-mongering against Muslims.
• Spencer denies putting any crime committed by a Muslim on the site and only includes those with justification in Islamic texts and teachings.
• Spencer approves of some Muslim governments and denies approving of the Taliban.
• Spencer denies being cited by terrorist Anders Breivik and provides a quote from Breivik’s manifesto that mentions him.
• Spencer argues that G-Hodwatch is not comparable to a site called Jew Watch and defends his tracking of G-Hod activities.
• The manifesto of the Norwegian terrorist who killed 77 people is suspect because it includes the entirety of a transcript from a documentary Spencer was in in 2002, which was never published or transcribed.
• Spencer argues that being quoted by a bad person does not make one evil, using the example of the Quran being quoted by terrorists.
• Daniel accuses Spencer of sharing the same ideology as the Norwegian terrorist, which he describes as white supremacist and anti-immigrant.
• Spencer defends