Intro
In this episode of “Stuff You Should Know,” Josh and Chuck dive into the fascinating world of nuclear semiotics. They explore the challenges of communicating the dangers of nuclear waste to future generations and discuss various ideas and approaches that have been proposed. From symbols to physical markers, they delve into the complexities of creating a warning message that can withstand the test of time.
Main Takeaways
Elon Musk’s portrayal in Walter Isaacson’s book sparks discussions
- Walter Isaacson’s book on Elon Musk portrays him as addicted to chaos and conspiracy, sparking various opinions and discussions.
The Street Stoic podcast combines hip-hop lyrics with ancient wisdom
- The Street Stoic podcast combines hip-hop lyrics with quotes from great philosophers, offering a unique blend of ancient wisdom and modern culture.
Josh Clark selects a favorite episode and expresses gratitude for the podcast’s success
- Josh Clark selects a favorite episode in honor of his wife’s birthday, wishing everyone a happy new year and expressing gratitude for the podcast’s success.
Reflection on recent live shows and upcoming shows
- Josh, Chuck, and Jerry reflect on their recent live shows in Chicago and Toronto, expressing their excitement and gratitude for the positive response.
- The team mentions upcoming live shows in Boston, Portland, Orlando, New Orleans, and Brooklyn, with the latter already sold out, sparking a discussion about adding a fourth night.
Exploring nuclear semiotics and the challenge of communicating with future generations
- The hosts discuss nuclear semiotics, a specialized interdisciplinary branch of science that aims to warn future humans or other intelligent beings about dangerous radioactive dump sites.
- They mention a famous episode on this topic by 99% Invisible and express their interest in thought experiment problem solving.
- The hosts delve into the complexity of creating a warning message that is understandable to everyone in any future situation, considering the potential collapse or advancement of civilizations and the longevity of nuclear waste danger.
Potential solutions and challenges in nuclear waste communication
- Technetium 99 has a half-life of 211,000 years, and there’s nuclear waste with a 1.7 million year half-life.
- Human evolution spans 200,000 years, and reading and writing have been around for less than 6,000 years.
- The challenge of preserving nuclear waste for thousands of years raises questions about how to communicate warnings across generations.
- Thinking about the distant future reveals the limitations of our current understanding and knowledge.
- Apple as a word is visualized as a symbol, suggesting that words may lose meaning in the future.
- The concept of long-term geological repositories involves burying nuclear waste deep underground.
- Salt beds are considered the best place for nuclear waste storage due to their lack of water and self-healing properties.
- There is a responsibility to warn future generations about nuclear waste.
- Burying and forgetting about nuclear waste is not a good idea.
- Attracting attention to nuclear waste can be problematic.
- The Waste Isolation Pilot Plant (WIPP) in New Mexico is the only facility in the United States for nuclear waste.
- The EPA mandated the creation of a permanent warning sign for nuclear waste repositories in 1982.
- The nuclear trefoil symbol is a circle with three car plates, representing an atom with activity around it.
- The symbol’s meaning as a radiation warning may not be universally recognized in the distant future due to language extinction.
- In 50,000 years, there may not be English or even humans, and we may all be post-biological humans, with our consciousness uploaded onto the internet or something.
- English has changed significantly over the years, and languages evolve and die, posing challenges in explaining things to future generations.
- Symbols need to convey instant recognition of danger, but there’s a fine line between warning people and enticing them.
- Emotions like fear are more likely to survive than words and symbols in the future.
- Group A studied the surface of the site, finding menacing earthworks like a field of spikes and a massive disc painted to look like a black hole, along with large markers and faces that invoke Edward Munch’s “The Scream”.
- Group A below the surface started talking about nuclear waste, teaching about radioactivity and its effects.
- Group B’s above ground work included big earthen walls in the shape of the nuclear trifold and markers with symbols and pictographs in different languages, with increasingly contorted human faces as you go down.
- The final image depicted in the context of radioactive waste was not a skull and crossbones or a pile of bones, but rather a person with three people standing, one of whom is dead with X’s for eyes.
- The decision to use an earthen berm and granite slabs with warnings in seven languages, as well as leaving blank spaces for future translations, was a thoughtful approach to warning future generations about the dangers of the radioactive waste.
- The concern is not about urban explorers or thrill-seekers accessing the waste, but rather technologically advanced civilizations drilling for resources or less advanced civilizations unintentionally altering the flow of groundwater.
- The idea of shooting nuclear waste into outer space is considered, with the potential risks and dangers of such a method being discussed.
- The Yucca Mountain Project got shut down, but the Whip group may have their plan implemented by 2040.
- Sweden’s application to build a repository in Forsmark included plans to delay important documentation efforts until 70 years after the repository’s closure.
- Rapper ASAP Rocky’s imprisonment in Sweden led to diplomatic involvement, including a call from Donald Trump at the behest of Kanye West.
- John Lomburg, a member of the original 1991 whip panel, stated that the government only showed compliance and didn’t truly care about their input.
- The 1981 human interference task force suggested that the most effective sign of warning would be the dead bodies of those who ignored it.
Summary
The Complexity of Nuclear Semiotics
The hosts explore the intricate field of nuclear semiotics, which aims to warn future generations about dangerous radioactive waste. They discuss the challenges of creating a warning message that remains understandable across different civilizations and time periods. With the longevity of nuclear waste danger and the potential collapse or advancement of civilizations, the hosts ponder the limitations of our current understanding and knowledge.
Preserving Nuclear Waste and Communication Methods
The hosts delve into the concept of long-term geological repositories, such as burying nuclear waste deep underground. They highlight the suitability of salt beds for storage due to their lack of water and self-healing properties. The responsibility to warn future generations about nuclear waste is emphasized, as burying and forgetting about it is not a viable solution. The hosts discuss the challenges of attracting attention to nuclear waste without enticing curiosity or causing harm.
The Role of Symbols and Language
The hosts explore the use of symbols as a means of communication across generations. They discuss the potential limitations of symbols, as language extinction may render their meaning obsolete in the distant future. The hosts raise concerns about the changing nature of languages and the need to convey instant recognition of danger without losing effectiveness over time. They emphasize that emotions like fear are more likely to endure than specific words or symbols.
Proposed Solutions and Challenges
The hosts discuss various proposed solutions for nuclear waste communication. They examine the use of physical markers, symbols, and pictographs to convey warnings. The importance of involving younger children in generating ideas is highlighted, as their simplicity can often simplify complex concepts. The hosts also touch on controversial ideas, such as creating a fake religion or myth to instill fear and deter people from radioactive areas. They explore the concept of long-term communication, which involves combining physical markers, archives, and successive human transmission to convey messages over thousands of years.
Conclusion
The field of nuclear semiotics presents a complex challenge in communicating the dangers of nuclear waste to future generations. From symbols to physical markers, finding a universal and enduring method of warning remains a daunting task. However, through interdisciplinary efforts and innovative thinking, there is hope for creating effective communication methods that can withstand the test of time.
