The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast – 364. Dream Analysis, AI & Fairy Tales | Jonathan Pageau

Intro

In this episode of “The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast,” Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau, a French Canadian liturgical artist and icon carver. They discuss the importance of traditional fairy tales, the role of fairy tales in society, and the power of symbolism in storytelling.

Main Takeaways

The Power of Traditional Fairy Tales

• Jonathan Pageau is writing traditional fairy tales to combat the current trend of poorly told stories.
• The fairy tales will be a mix of male and female-led stories and will be set in a world where all the characters’ stories intertwine.
• The purpose of the fairy tales is to give people insight about what the stories are about.

The Importance of Female-Led Fairy Tales

• Jonathan believes it’s important to get back to the actual stories of fairy tales, especially female-led ones like Snow White, to remember why we like them and not twist them.
• The old stories lie at the bottom of all these folk stories and are like tuning forks for civilization.
• Snow White deals with the transformation of a young woman during puberty and the fragmentation of masculinity through the dwarfs.

The Role of AI in Storytelling

• AI models such as Chao GPT can generate interesting responses, even on philosophical questions like belief in God.
• AI is a hybrid of human and machine intelligence, with human input guiding its qualitative judgments.
• The story of Aladdin’s genie’s lamp is a cautionary tale about being careful what you wish for when given infinite power.

The Symbolism in Fairy Tales

• Stories have a structure that models patterns and the process of transformation.
• Dream analysis can be useful if it produces a flash of insight for the client.
• The use of postmodern storytelling, like collage storytelling, can capture insights and bring together varying versions of the stories.

The Impact of AI on Society

• AI is like a black box that we’re playing with and we don’t know how to deal with it.
• The increase in power of AI is leading to an increase in control and the need for centralized arbiters of reality.
• The upcoming election is shaping up to be a wild ride with unconventional candidates on both sides.

Summary

The Power of Traditional Fairy Tales

Jonathan Pageau is on a mission to revive the art of traditional fairy tales. He believes that poorly told stories have become the norm and wants to bring back the depth and insight that fairy tales can provide. His fairy tales will feature a mix of male and female-led stories, set in a world where all the characters’ stories intertwine. The purpose of these fairy tales is to give people insight into the deeper meaning and symbolism behind the stories.

The Importance of Female-Led Fairy Tales

Jonathan emphasizes the importance of female-led fairy tales, such as Snow White. He believes that these stories, rooted in the old tales that lie at the bottom of all folk stories, act as tuning forks for civilization. Snow White, in particular, deals with the transformation of a young woman during puberty and the fragmentation of masculinity through the dwarfs. By returning to the original stories and understanding their significance, we can gain a deeper appreciation for the timeless themes they explore.

The Role of AI in Storytelling

The discussion also delves into the role of AI in storytelling. AI models like Chao GPT have the ability to generate interesting responses, even on philosophical questions like belief in God. However, it is important to approach AI with caution, as it is a hybrid of human and machine intelligence. The story of Aladdin’s genie’s lamp serves as a cautionary tale about the consequences of unlimited power and the importance of finding the right balance.

The Symbolism in Fairy Tales

Jonathan and Jordan explore the symbolism present in fairy tales and the power of storytelling. Stories have a structure that models patterns and the process of transformation, making them a valuable tool for understanding the world. Dream analysis can also provide insights into one’s subconscious and help unravel deeper meanings. Additionally, the use of postmodern storytelling techniques, like collage storytelling, can capture different versions of stories and offer unique insights.

The Impact of AI on Society

The conversation touches on the impact of AI on society and the need for caution. AI is like a black box that we are still trying to understand, and its increasing power raises concerns about control and centralized arbiters of reality. The upcoming election is expected to be influenced by AI, with battles between different AI systems vying for attention and support. It is crucial to tell better stories, free from fear and compulsion, to counteract the potential negative effects of AI.

Conclusion

Jonathan Pageau’s exploration of traditional fairy tales and the power of storytelling offers valuable insights into the human experience. By returning to the original stories, understanding their symbolism, and embracing the transformative nature of narratives, we can gain a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us. As AI continues to evolve, it is essential to approach it with caution and ensure that storytelling remains a source of wisdom and guidance in our lives.